33.) What Was Manu Up To?

I should begin by clarifying that I am using the expression caste system as a category which semantically subsumes the two allied, but distinct, concepts of varṇa and jāti. The confusion between the two has been deplored. A.L. Basham, in his highly regarded book on ancient India, remarks, during the course of his chapter on “Society; Class, Family and Individual”:

In the whole of this chapter we have hardly used the word which in most minds is most strongly connected with the Hindu social order. When the Portuguese came to India in the 16th century they found the Hindu community divided into many separate groups, which they called castas, meaning tribes, clans or families. The name stuck, and became the usual word for the Hindu social group. In attempting to account for the remarkable proliferation of castes in the 18th and 19th century India, authorities credulously accepted the traditional view that by a process of intermarriage and subdivision the 3,000 or more castes of modern India had evolved from the four primitive classes, and the term ‘caste’ was applied indiscriminately to both varṇa or class and jāti or caste proper. This is a false terminology; castes rise and fall in the social scale, and old castes die out and new ones are formed, but the four great classes are stable. They are never more or less than four, and for over 2,000 years their order of precedence has not altered. All ancient Indian sources make a sharp distinction between the two terms; varṇa is much referred to, but jāti very little, and when it does appear in literature it does not always imply the comparatively rigid and exclusive social groups of later times. If caste is defined as a system of groups within the class, which are normally endogamous, commensal and craft-exclusive, we have no real evidence of its existence until comparatively late times.[1]

I shall, despite this warning, subsume both the terms within the expression caste system because at the moment my concern is centered on the consequence of their fusion for understanding the significance of the caste system in India, and not the consequences that flow from confusion between the two in trying to understand the reality of the caste in India.

At this point, we must draw a distinction between the manner in which modern scholars view the relationship between varṇa and jāti, and the manner in which the Hindu tradition itself regards it according to modern scholarship.

Nobody can understand the caste system until he has freed himself from the mistaken notion based on the current interpretation of the so-called Institutes of Manu, that there were ‘four original castes’. No four original castes ever existed at any time or place, and at the present moment the terms Brāhmaṇa, Kshatriya, Vaiśya, and Śūdra have no exact meaning as a classification of existing castes. In northern India the names Vaiśya and Śūdra are not used except in books or disputes about questions of caste precedence. In the south all Hindus who are not Brahmans fall under the denomination of Śūdra, while the designations Kshatriya and Vaiśya are practically unknown.[2]

My presentation requires, however, that we pursue further this “mistaken notion” alluded to in the passage just cited. What precisely does this ‘mistaken notion’ consist of? It consists of

The common notion that there were four original castes, Brahman, Kshatriya or Rājanya, Vaiśya, and Śūdra is false. The ancient Hindu writers classified mankind under four varṇas or ‘orders’, with reference to their occupations, namely, (I) the learned, literate, and priestly order, or Brahmans; (2) the fighting and governing classes, who were grouped together as Rājanyas or Kshatriyas, irrespective of race, meaning by that term ancestry; (3) the trading and agricultural people, or Vaiśyas; and (4) common, humble folk, day labourers, and so forth, whose business it was to serve their betters. Every family and caste (jāti) observing Hindu dharma necessarily fell under one or other of those four heads. Various half-wild tribes, and also communities like sweepers, whose occupations are obviously unclean, were regarded as standing outside the four orders or varṇas. Such unclean communities have usually imitated the Hindu caste organization and developed an elaborate system of castes of their own, which may be described by the paradoxical term ‘out-caste castes’[3]

The mistaken notion consists of the conflation of varṇa and jāti categories, when “it is practically certain that caste (jāti) did not originate from the four classes. Admittedly it developed later than they but this proves nothing.”[4]

The locus classicus of the conflation is supposed to be the Manusmṛti. The point to note however is that the Manusmṛti itself does not conflate the two terms. As Percival Spear points out: “The compiler of the Institutes of Manu was well aware of the distinction between varṇa and jāti. While he mentions about fifty different castes, he lays much stress on the fact that there are only four varṇas. The two terms are carelessly confused in one passage (X.31), but in that only. Separate castes existed from an early date. Their relations to one another remain unaffected whether they are grouped theoretically under four occupational headings or not.”[5]

Let us now take stock of the situation. It can be stated in the form of the following propositions:

(1) The concepts of varṇa and jāti are distinct and essentially unrelated concepts.

(2) Manu is also aware of the distinct nature of these concepts.

(3) In the Manusmṛti, nevertheless, the two are brought into relationship to each other through the device of claiming that the jātis are the product of the hypogamous or pratiloma marriages among the four varṇas. Modern scholars, however, consider this association as purely theoretical.

This forgoing analysis raises the question: what theory precisely is Manu claiming to propound by undertaking such an exercise? Is he not thereby establishing the consanginuity of the entire Hindu community comprised by varṇas and jātis? Does not the net effect of his theory make them all of one blood (including the Untouchables), and what better antidote to bad blood than to be told that we are all of the same blood?

And was the author of the Puruasūkta trying to achieve a similar integration by describing all the four varṇas as part of the same purua?

[1] A.L. Basham, The Wonder That Was India (London: Sidgewick & Jackson, 1967) p. 148. Also see Percival Spear, ed., The Oxford History of India (Delhi: Oxford University Press, 1994) p. 63ff.

[2] Ibid., p. 62.

[3] Ibid.

[4] A.L. Basham, op. cit., p. 148, emphasis added.

[5] Percival Spear, ed., op.cit., p. 63-64.


7 Responses to “33.) What Was Manu Up To?”

  1. Tusar N. Mohapatra Says:

    I don’t think you are unacquainted with Sri Aurobindo’s interpretation of the four-fold order.

  2. Krishen Kak Says:

    How authoritative really was Manu, and was his a contested text? Was the Manusmriti prescriptive of what he believed should be or descriptive of how society really was, or both?

  3. Dr Nishith N Dhruv Says:

    These are debatable points. And one can argue and argue and yet not find a satisfactory solution. It seems that the 4 warnas represented the four occupational classes of social order – and the pattern exists even today. Thus we have the teachers and professors etc (Brahmanas), army-navy-airforce-detective agencies etc (Khatriyas), farmers and traders & industrialists etc (Vaishyas) and labourers etc (Shudras) – and this pattern is there in all the societies. It is a different matter that the exclusiveness and rigidness associated with the system in India may not exist there – the system is dissolving in India itself.

  4. Kazelola Says:

    Hi webmaster!

  5. s.p. attri Says:

    By S.P. Attri (USA)

    1. Everything of significance that is undertaken in Islam, involves the
    services of Islam’s Greese-Monkeys. The greese-monkeys of Islam are:
    Mullahs, Maulvies, Muftis, Qazis, and other members of Moslem-Clergy.
    These monkeys are the only class of people in the whole of Islam, that is
    educated in the doctrine of Islam and Quran (An average Moslem is neither
    educated in Islam nor in Quran). The enormity of the role of Greese-Monkeys
    cannot be judged from the look on their faces, but from the job that they do
    on their Moslem-Followers.

    Almost the entire job of indoctrinating (Educating in Islamic Law and Duty)
    the Islamic-Followers is done by these humorless greese-monkeys, they are the
    ones who produce the so-called heroes of Islam, the Jehadis. The Jehadis are
    the Hit-Men and Mass-Killers of Islam, the greese-monkeys make sure that the
    performance of Jehadis is upto standards of Islam. They do this by teaching
    them how to fight in the ways of Allah, and how to establish Allah’s Supremacy
    over Non-Believers (Non-Moslem Kafirs/Infidels). They not only expose them to
    the tenets of Islam, but also show them the green-gardens of Islam, tempting
    them with after-death rewards that await a Jehadi in Janat (Moslem’s
    Paradise), this always includes choicest sex with 72 Houris. It is because of
    such attractive rewards, shown to the Moslems by their Greese-Monkeys, that a
    Moslem becomes ready to kill and get killed.

    In both outcomes, the Moslem wins, he ends up in Janat. These rewards are sort
    of “Eye For Eye” compensation for their sacrifices of undertaking Jehad in the
    name of Allah, this Jehad always involves killing of Hateful-Kafirs (Non-
    Moslem Infidels). In other words, the greese-monkeys teach Sullas, the gospel
    of hate, the hate of Non-Moslems whom they label as Kafirs (Infidels).
    And what is Jehad?

    Jehad is the Perpetual-War that a Moslem engages against Kafirs, the Greese-
    Monkeys convince the Moslem that:
    “A person’s biggest crime is to deny Allah and Mohammad’s Exclusive Right To Be
    Believed In And Adored.”

    2. It is from these greese-monkeys that a Moslem learns, his hatred of Non-
    Moslem religions, and his attempts to deny Non-Moslems all rights, except the
    right to serve their Moslem-Masters. There is little hatred that a Moslem can
    learn, without the coachings from these Greese-Monkeys of Islam (That is why,
    for practical purposes, breaking down these greese-monkeys is breaking down
    Islam itself). This hatred is a sufficient factor, to inspire a Moslem to try
    to raid and subjugate Non-Moslem territories (labelled as Dar-Ul-Harb/The
    Battle-Ground). There is little that a Moslem can do without teachings and
    services of these greese-monkeys, these greese-monkeys are the ones who keep
    the Donkey-Engines of Islam going, and running at full blast. Essentially,
    these greese-monkeys are the Sanctuaries of Islam. Eliminating this sanctuary
    is eliminating Islam for practical purposes.

    One Greese-Monkey influences the lives of at least 40,000 to 50,000 Sullas, at
    least half of these Sullas are Potential-Jehadis.

    Because of this ratio, disaster to greese-monkeys means catastrophe to Islam.
    In other words, eliminating of Greese-Monkeys is sentencing Islam to death. In
    fact, if 10,000 Greese-Monkeys of Islam are eliminated, then Islam wouldn’t
    last more than a week.

    Why is Islam so fragile?

    Answer: Because of the BASACKWARD-PYRAMID structure of Islam (as well as of
    Christianity). This structure is stunning in its constitution and application.

    NOTE: A full explanation of the BASACKWARD-PYRAMID of Islam/Christianity, is
    beyond the scope of this message, which is intended to be kept short. I shall
    write up a separate message to explain the Basackward-Structure of both

    3. Given the absolute reality (fully backed by mathematical-probabilities)
    that, you can NEVER completely eliminate Violence from the world, you can only
    minimize it. A logical question becomes: Which is better, removal of 10,000
    Greese-Monkeys of Islam or 140 million Sulla-Followers?

    Why remove 140 million people later, if removing 10,000 now can accomplish the
    same thing? Why expend more time, effort, and money than what is absolutely
    necessary? Isn’t it a smarter way of doing an effective, and more professional

    4. In the fulfillment of his Karma, man has to do a wide variety of jobs. But
    of all the jobs, the waging of war is the most unpleasant. If one can avoid
    war, so much the better. But in the real world, situations arise in which
    waging of wars becomes inevitable. In our world, in which there are always
    aggressive people, who come to burn and loot your country and people, waging
    of wars becomes inevitable and essential Karma of man, to defend his people
    and the safety of his nation. The 1200 year long history of Muslim Rule in
    India, is evidence of murder of hundreds of millions of Hindus by Barbarian-
    Sullas, coached into action by these Greese-Monkeys of Islam. It is beyond
    upsetting that we Hindus have learned neither any lesson of history, nor the
    duty of our Karma, to defend our people. In defending his people, it becomes
    the duty of a soldier, to wound and even to kill his enemy. There is an
    absolute and essential need to implement that duty. That is the only way to
    keep our Hindus people safe from assaults of career-barbarians (Sullas and

    Isn’t it obvious that instead of moaning and groaning, bitching and barking,
    over tragedies of lost Hindu lives, we now need to figure ways to fend off
    such tragedies in future.

    5. We need to be aware that, our enemies (Sullas and Kharistas, together with
    their Greese-Monkeys) are scarcely above the degree of savage life, their
    respect for life is not very much, and violence comes natural to them,
    murdering, looting, and raping Kafirs/Non-Moslem Infidels is their compulsive
    trait. Their hatred of people of religions other than their own, is beyond
    description. This hatred cannot be dissipated, because without this hatred,
    there is no reason and no justification, for the existence of either Islam or
    Christianity. If Islam and Christianity ever stopped hating other religions,
    then that would be the end of both Islam and Christianity. It should be
    obvious, that Moslems and Christians wouldn’t choose to commit suicide, by
    abandoning their hatred for other religions.

    Consequently, this in-built hatred of other religions in both Islam and
    Christianity, is guaranteed to continue, and their blood-thirsty violence
    against these Kafir (Infidel) religions shall continue, it is foolish to
    expect that Moslems and Christians shall abandon their well-established and
    highly successful methods, just to be nice to other religions. In fact, this
    kind of nicety towards other religions, does not come within the jurisdiction
    of morality, as understood by Sullas and Kharistas. Much more likely is the
    prospect that, colossal Sulla-Violence that occurred against Hindu during the
    last 1200 years was just a skirmish, compared to what is yet to come. Sulla
    Violence against Hindu is not over, it has not been defused, and it cannot be
    defused. Instead of sleeping on the couch, we Hindus need to wake up, and
    figure ways to beef up our security.

    6. Can 10,000 Greese-Monkeys be replaced? Yes, some of them can certainly be,
    no doubt there shall be serious attempts to replace all of them. But they
    cannot be replaced much more often than once or twice. If we Hindus stay the
    course and do the swift job of Greese-Monkey Elimination, then soon there
    won’t be many more Monkeys to go around, and that is the end of Islam, for
    good. What Hindus are doing here is, to take the fight to the enemy, to the
    site of Enemy’s Power. They are eliminating the exporters of terror,
    barbarism, and violence of Islam. They are eliminating the Sanctuary Of Islam.

    7. Hindus must understand and understand it CLEARLY that, Sulla-Attacks
    against Hindu are Not invited by Sulla-Strength, but by Perception Of Hindu-
    Weakness, on the part of Sullas. We Hindus have been tested again and again by
    Sullas (those Thugs, Terrorists, and Barbarians) for 1200 years, and dangers
    to Hindus have not passed, in fact threats to Hindus have taken on a Nasty-
    What this suggests is that:

    It is an Act Of Absolute Decency (which involves absolute minimum loss of
    human life), to remove 10,000 Greese-Monkeys now, rather than having to remove
    140 millions Sullas later on (which shall surely be needed). The latter option
    is a Dumber-Way of doing the same job, at much higher cost, with much greater
    difficulty, and much greater loss of life.

    8. It is a matter of common observation that, every job of significance
    requires the right tool and right technique. We have made tremendous strides
    in understanding the beast of Islam. We know where Islam is the weakest, we
    know the location of the soft-underbelly of Islam. The soft-underbelly of
    Islam is the class of Islam’s Greese-Monkeys. For practical purposes, these
    greese-monkeys are the Battle-Staff of Islam. These Monkeys have become too
    big for their breeches, they need to be eliminated.

    Hindus would be doing themselves a favor by hitting this soft-underbelly.
    Immediately after we hit this soft-underbelly, something wonderful will happen
    to Hinduism. War-Dance with Islam shall be over, and Islam shall be:
    Out Of Circulation, For Good.

    9. Hindus are smart people, they understand the value of time (you might have
    heard that “time is money”). It behooves us Hindus to make Smart-Choices,
    keep collateral damage to a minimum, apply focused and determined force, to
    do the job that is required.

    Hindus: Eliminate Greese-Monkeys Of Islam now.
    Surinder Paul Attri

  6. s.p. attri Says:


    By S.P. Attri (USA)

    1. Our Hindu people look upto to our Hindu Holy Men (HHMs), whom they extoll to
    sky. But our HHMs are not doing a damn thing right, for the safety, security, or
    survival of those who pay them so much respect. Their continued bearing as the
    Head-Honchos of Hindus, is a fore-shadowing of worse things to come to Hinduism.
    Our HHMs have no interest in dealing with either the evils of the world, or the
    evils that have crept into our Hinduism. They are much more interested in
    securing a place for themselves in the after-world, than in saving Hinduism from
    going to hell.

    2. Many of our HHMs, not only subscribe to the Pseudo-Secular politics, but are
    also openly touting the Utterly Nonsensical Gandhian Slogans of:

    The imapct of their actions cannot be good on Hinduism. They are not only
    destroying the Kashatriya (Military) Spirit of the Hindu, but are also taking
    the mind of the Hindu, away from Hinduism-Defense. Several of our HHMs are
    openly praising Sonia Gandhi as:
    Sonia is welcome to be the Prime Minister of India. She is a good woman.

    3. Our HHMs have no knowledge of the problems and challenges, that Hinduism
    faces in the world of today. They have less than zero understanding of the
    consequences of the practice of our Perverted Caste-System. They have no
    appreciation that every Hindu is equal, and that Dalits have as much right as
    Non-Dalits, to enter any temple, and to chant Mantras and Bhajans, in any
    temple, any where in India. Because they (our HHMs) do not have this
    understanding, they are not going out in the Hindu-Society, to secure the
    Hindu-Rights (Vedic-Rights) of our Dalit-Brethren.

    We cannot ignore the damage that this attitude is doing to our Hinduism. Any HHM
    who does not feel and work towards the equality of all Hindus, should be
    IMMEDIATELY kicked out of his position as Shankar-Acharya, Swami, Priest, etc
    etc, and helped out of the temple.

    4. Whose duty is it to do this Dirty-Job? Answer: It is the duty of all of us
    Hindus. All Hindu Organizations must aggressively move into tackling this
    problem. They must kick out our Rotten HHMs, and replace them with the Right
    Kind Of people, to act as our Head-Honchos. Time is running out for us Hindus,
    the world is not going to wait for us Hindus, to get our act together. The world
    has no hesitation, in spitting us and our Perverted Caste-System out, by the
    forces of global competition. Our Perverted Caste-System is our own problem, our
    own garbage, and it is our job, to clean our garbage. Our HHMs are the
    Head-Honchos of our Hindu People, they are the ones who build and develop
    Hindu-Opinions and Hindu-Attitudes. We must have the right kind of poeple to
    develop Hindu-Attitudes, to clean out our Perverted Caste System.

    Our Perverted Caste System is the cause of Disunity within our Hindu-Parivar.
    The Barbarians of Islam and Christianity (who have murdered hundreds of millions
    of Non-Moslems and Non-Christians), take advantage of our caste-based disunity.
    They go to the weakest sections of our Hindu Society, as Liberators from

    5. Elimination of our Perverted Caste-System, is a Wake-Up Call to all Hindus
    (around the world). Our Knowledge-Based (Vidya-Based) Vedic System, has no place
    for superstitions and blind-beliefs, of the type that are found massively, in
    Islam and Christianity. Hinduism is knowledge-based, and is a Reform-Religion by
    definition. We Hindus must kick out our Perverted Caste-System, that has
    destroyed our Hindu-Technology for centuries.

    Our Perverted Caste-System is BAD-BAD NEWS for our Hindu-Technology. Reason: It
    is a Static-System, it keeps our Hindu-Technology at the same place, where it
    has been for centuries. But the world in which we are living, is a
    Highly-Dynamic World, in which technology is changing and advancing at
    break-neck speed. We cannot afford to keep a Bullock-Cart Hindu Technology
    System, in the world of airplanes and rockets. What we Hindus need to do is to
    join hands, and get rid off the Bull-Sh** of our Perverted Caste-System. To do
    that, the people that we appoint as our Head-Honchos, must be the Right Kind Of

  7. s.p. attri Says:


    By S.P. Attri ( USA )
    1. When you talk to a Moslem in the USA, he will profess a total-disconnect with violence & terrorism, and make a pretense of his religion of Islam, as being a creed & canon of Non-Violence, Peace, Love, & Brotherhood. He probably believes in peace too, but this is the peace in the Islamic sense, which is the peace of Dar-Ul-Islam ( the land of Peace: this is the land in which Islam rules ). All Non-Moslem/Kafir lands are Dar-Ul-Harb ( the battle-ground ). A Moslem must engage in battle, to bring all lands of the Dar-Ul-Harb, under the banner of Islam. This is the basic supposition of Islam, and no hypothesis or deduction, can be allowed to interfere with this basic assumption of Islam.

    2. Where does the Moslem stand with respect to this basic presumption of Islam ? A Moslem remembers very well what, his Mullas & Maulvies don’t let him forget, which is that Jehad is the agenda of Islam. It is disclosed to the Moslem that, whether Kafirs ( Non-Moslem Infidels ) like it or not, Islam is coming to the USA, one way or the other, and that Islam will dominate the USA, with Islamic-Sharia taking the place of USA laws. It is made quite clear to the Moslems, at the very outset that, Kafirs ( Non-Moslem Infidels ) have no rights in Islam.

    As a diplomatic-deception, Moslems harp on the theme, all the time that, Jehad in Islam means, effort or struggle to control one’s lusts, passion and desires & so on. But that is not what Jehad is. In the simplest language, Jehad is ” Kill the Kafir, take his women as slaves or concubines, pillage & plunder his property. ” Seventy-Two Houries & twenty-eight handsome boys, await a Jehadi in Janat ( Moslem’s Paradise ) as rewards for his engangement in Jehad. That is the whole vocation of Jehad.

    3. Jehad is the tool within Islam which, makes the Sulla fearless, not at all afraid to kill & get killed, and makes him believe that, Jehad is his primary & Islamic duty. The love of Jehad & love of Martyrdom go together in Islam. Mullahs & Maulvies go out of their way to, promote & perpetuate the Jehadic message, in all its forms, they try to get the Sullas to share the basics of Jehad, from one Moslem to another. Sullas are warned that, Jehad may not be delightful to them in the beginning, but eventually they will find it very attractive, and they would want to know more about it.

    This is the method of the Islamic-Clergy, of making Un-Willing Jehadis into Willing-Jehadis converts. This is the real meaning & method of Islam, which the Kafirs never understood, and conducted themselves as blind-idiots, while the Sulla-Jehadi hordes slaughtered them.

    4. It needs to be understood through & through that, Islam has no respect nor any sympathy, for any Kafir ( Non-Moslem Infidel ) religion. Sullas are constantly & sedulously warned that, that there is a need to defend Islam from those who, due to their ignorance & lack of understanding of Islam, may want to destory Islam ( as is their suspicion in the USA ). Sullas are alerted to the danger of humbling themselves out of existence, and advised to become strong enough & willing to engage in Jehad. Islam is in danger because of the actions of, those Moslems who are not willing to do Jehad.

    5. Islamic-Clergy considers two ways of making USA Islamic. One is by attacking it militarily & then controlling it in all its spheres of activity. The second is by infiltrating it & destroying its culture, by developing propaganda & creating divisions within the USA society, enflame one side against the other, making them kill each other, create complete disunity amongst them ( that is amongst the Kafirs of the USA ), so they cannot gather strength, to fight the real enemy ( which is Islam ). Thus & then the USA would become vulnerable to domination by Islam. The Islamic clergy touts that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world & in the USA.

    At least 25% of American Moslems condone suicidal missions. Some amongst them are thinking of attacks on the USA, larger than 9/11 attack.

    6. One of the primary tactics of USA Moslems is Deception. When asked about terrorist groups ( Moslems ), Moslems are either silent or evasive. Many of the so-called moderate Moslems, cheer groups like Hamas. The agenda of the Moslem-Brotherhood is to establish Allah’s religion in the USA. Some Moslems have been caught on tape, asking America to become Islamic.
    About 18% of American prisons are Islamic, some amongst them are Islamo-fascists, who become united by a common identity. They want to impose their faith on the rest of the USA society. This is the kind of belief that, has kept the Moslems dedicated to Jehad, for 1400 years.

    7. Kafirs ( Non-Moslem Infidels ) fail to recognize that, Islam is a radical enemy, and that Kafirs are in a battle for the survival of their civilization, and that their freedom, libety, and security are all at stake, and that they must stand up to the evil of Islam.
    Allah’s warriors ( Jehadis ) believe that, Allah requires a bloody Jehadic war from a Moslem.
    Hell-Boy, Hazrat Mohammad, was a scheming-hoodlum and a desperate-crook, with un-bridled greed & desire for dominance.

    To deal with Hazrat Mohammad’s Jehad: You either defeat Islam, or Islam will defeat you.

    Surinder Paul Attri

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